Transcript of the podcast:

Scott (00:03): Welcome to AI marketing CEO, chat with myself, Scott Sweeney co-founder of AI content generation, and John. Okay. Hi Scott, how are you also? Co-Founder yeah, pretty good. So, we have some very special guests today for our program and it’s John CA and Scott Sweeney of AI content. Jen, welcome John.


John (00:34): Oh, thank you. Thank you. Glad to be on the show. <Laugh>


Scott (00:37): And so am I, so today we thought it would be really to go through our AI journeys and answer some questions about the industry as analysts in this space for a good, oh, maybe a year and a half now. You know, and that’s what all we cover. We thought we’d just kind of give you what some of our insights might be.


John (01:06): Yep. Yeah. so, Scott, could you tell us about yourself and your, an AI journey?


Scott (01:12): Great. Yeah, absolutely. So, in terms of myself, I’ve worked in marketing and sales and actually finance in my career and starting in hardware engineering. I worked in finance for a very large manufacture of computers called digital equipment corporation. Back then I ran marketing for a solid-state disc group that is exciting. And then I moved into my role of consulting for general business teaching and training folks. In terms of goal setting leadership skills worked with about 200 companies over 10 years, 2000 individuals learned a lot learned as much as I gave back. It was a lot of fun. Went to work for one of my clients was a software engineering company, and I did that for another dozen years or so, and we were an enterprise CAD cam company. And that brought me to back to consulting again for marketing as a outsource CMO and working in content, but other areas S SCM and strategy coaching of agent agencies.


Scott (02:56): And then as of late over and starting in early 20, 21, myself and John because of kind of a previous time that John and I met oh, few years back with agile marketing John initiated a call to me and said, Hey, there’s something going on here with content generation and AI, and you want to do a project on it. And the project turned into AI content gen Inc that, and we came up with our very first of a kind report analyst report on the top 20 AI content generation tools at the end of 21, I think that’s it. That’s all I got. How about you, John, tell us, tell us about yourself and your journey.


John (03:47): Well, I’m a marketer and I think somewhat similar to you, Scott, you know, I, I think what I always like about you Scott, is that you are looking at how innovation is pushing forward to the industry. And I think that’s one of the reasons why we ended up collaborating on AI content. Jen, we were both curious about how, you know, the industry is pushing that. And in my background, I’ve always worked for tech companies first in the computer reseller industry, working for value added resellers, IBM Oracle, sun systems, stuff like that. And then I started working for a lot of tech startups and, but then over the last 20 years, it’s really been marketing content marketing content strategy, search engine optimization. I come to love organic search mainly because when I think of search, it’s not just about keywords, it’s actually about how do you really do conversion optimization?


John (04:51):Well, how do you make the website? How do you build it in such a way that it attracts people? How do you build it in such a way that you get people to see the messaging and, and then quickly convert. That’s really what SEOs about. So, for me, I was doing a contract I’m a freelancer for content strategy and content design. That’s, that’s one of my activities. And I was working as a contract content strategist for an agency and every single client, virtually every single client, whoever they were, whether it was banking or food distribution or whatever it was using AI. And so, I started to ask myself, well, how does this apply to what I do, which is content strategy. And so, I started looking at the tools and quickly saw that things had moved on mainly because of open AI and G P T three.


John (05:52):And then I started talking with you Scott, about this because we’ve been in, in touch over the years. I think we first met when I invited you to the Boston agile marketing meetup. Yes. And you were very gracious and, and did a great speech in the early days, 20 12, 20 13, I think it was what, 10 years ago or so. And we kept in touch and as I said, you know, we both have that, that passion for seeing where the industry’s going. And we worked on that project and, and, and AI content gen came out of it.


Scott (06:27):That’s great. Yeah. And you remind me of the technology. The last time when I was in the enterprise software companies, the VP marketing I was an early adopter of HubSpot and so technologies always fascinated me. And then when VR and AR started coming out, I started playing with my, you know, goggles and I was getting sick because it wasn’t working very well. And so now here, here we are with AI and how it’s transforming content and content design. And so, it’s pretty exciting.


John (07:03): So yeah, I think, I think the other thing there is that, I mean, you have those years of coaching, but you know, I, I also had that blog, I ended up doing that blogging stuff, but it was really about trying to understand how a company goes through digital transformation. I think, I think that’s the core. I mean, I think that’s absolutely.


John (07:22): Yeah. I mean, I think we both have a background in that where it’s either helping other companies or working on our own teams, trying to get them to <laugh> adopt a new technology.


Scott (07:37): Yes. Yeah. And the, and the issue with digital transformation is always that, you know, it’s not easy. And so even with coaching, you know, you’re trying to get a group of people to think and do things differently basically. And so, if you want you know, if you’re working on organizational behavior you get to convince people of that, that this is the right way to go. And I think a lot of ways, the digital transformation of with AI is very similar, there’s great tools, but the process and the people and understanding them and, and understanding how, how you use  and how do you win. And that, you know, you don’t want to go back to old ways is a big challenge.


John (08:20):Well, to me also, I think it’s the process about how you approach it. I mean, I think that if you’re only concerned about, and lots of teams are there, it’s, it’s not because they’re, they’re stuck in the mud, it’s they have a passion they want to do well, and they’re focused on customer service and, you know, making sure that they’re doing a good job, it’s hard to then carve out the extra time to do something new. Absolutely. And so, you must set up, you must provide the resources and the leadership to be able to give the team that space and opportunity to, you know, to adopt something that’s new.


Scott (09:03):Certainly, it’s disruptive. Okay. Everyone has their own process. And so, this is a disruption to the everyday process of how things get done.


John (09:14):Right. But when I think of technology, I mean, I think of it as a river, you know, you, you can step out for a while, but you can also step back in and, and realize that you know, those same processes around digital transformation can be applied to any of those new technologists that come along. But what, what, what about AI content generation software? What do you think is, is most important?


Scott (09:42):I think it’s really important to realize that the AI tools are used together in partnership with people. And so, the tool is not something that’s going to replace SEO. It’s not going to replace writers needing to design what the content is or should be. It’s, it’s really an evolution of technology that is assistive to content teams, to agencies, trying to get things accomplished with greater success in terms of making sure that the content is achieving the goals and that I think of it kind of like, you know I think you made this analogy John, like it’s the Gutenberg printing press. Okay. What did that do for the history of writing? And then you have, you know, the, the typewriter okay. The mini-Gutenberg, and then you have the word processor and I see this AI technology as the, the next step of assistive technology and helping companies and people to communicate effectively to achieve their goals.


John (11:16):Yeah. I agree, Scott. I mean, I think this isn’t about AI content gen replacing riders, but actually giving them a set of tools to do a better job. I mean, I’ve, I’ve worked in agencies and, and also brand companies and especially at the agencies, it it’s, there’s a lot of work to do, you know? And I, I I’ve seen the experiences for riders and, and they need more help, you know, so I, I really see one that these tools cannot be used well, unless you have a writer whose good at their job and knows what they’re you know, looking to do. It can speed up the time in which they have to do you know, various things to be able to produce the best results. And I think I think that’s the important thing to remember. It’s a, it’s a, it’s a supplement and it’s that next stage after the word processor for the writer. So that’s great. Super, so, John I want to know what you think the most important functions are that you see in the industry today.


John (12:36):Well, as I mentioned, I’m a content strategist, and so I work with writers. I also work with SEOs and the biggest issue for me in working for different companies or, you know, working in an agency setting sometimes is how you do the research, you know, what is it that you need to write? And then how do you craft what needs to be written into a creative brief so that the writer or the SEO is creating something that you know, is, is highest quality and, and the best that it could be. And while not every AI content gen tool does this, a lot of them do they have tools for research and briefing that really help, you know, so I, I, I think it’s I think it’s some of those early research tools that can help speed up the process.


Scott (13:41):Hmm. Agreed. Yeah, I, I would say and John, I really appreciate your work with SEO because that’s really not my area of expertise, although I know a lot of it, I think some of it rubbed off on me and I rarely have a greater appreciation and always the craft of writing and the tone. And you know, what’s your point of view are things that and just the, the craft has been always something that I’ve worked on. So, there’s always that kind of tension between the SEOs and some of the writers sometimes at times. And in terms of like, what are we trying to achieve here? Are we trying to get more links, more eyeballs, or are we trying to really make sure that the brand is you know, you’re staying true to your brand?


Scott (14:29): So, I think SEO is really important in terms of functions, brief development, for sure. In terms of the functions and specifically some of the tools that really integrate those, like when you’re able to create you do your research, you create this great brief, you you know, what your topics and your keywords should be, but then they integrate it with the automated writing. Okay. And so, you can pull your, some of your brief into your workspace and say, write for me or whatever, you know, whatever they tool will tell you. And then it comes out with some, some, some great pros that you know, that gets you started with your first draft and that it includes all the elements that you want to achieve the goals of the piece of content that you’re creating.


John (15:30): I wanted to follow up with some rapid-fire questions, Scott, you know, what areas do you think are, are most important for a, a client’s content strategy team’s approach in some of the following areas such as research?


Scott (15:50): Yeah, I think, you know, the research functions are great. And then a lot of the tools, you know, can show you what, or some of the tools can show you things like heat maps and how your competitors are covering topics or keywords, and they’ll provide links. And just the beginning of, you know, sometimes writers might be able to relate to like writers’ block. Like, I don’t know what to write, you know, so this is a more scientific approach. It will help writers to create the briefs if the, if that’s you know, if they don’t have one already and what it is that that needs to go. And so, they, so they can get started right away with what they’re writing. And so, I think ideas and research is really great.


John (16:46): Yeah. I mean, that, that, to me, as I mentioned before is sort of one of the big pluses in, in these sets of tools. Again, not every tool has it, but although even a tool that does AI content gen is going to provide you some insights about, you know, what topics to include what information to include. I, I can’t wait for the time when we have more AI tools for AI auditing and AI inventory. So, you know, doing a content audit, <laugh> it, it could take a long time. Oh, my goodness. So that’s not quite the same as developing a strategy, but you know, if you were to produce some tools and AI content, gen AI content auditing, I think that would be great. So, what about briefing? What about briefing?


Scott (17:41): Yeah, so, I mean, that’s just you know, I was talking to a client potential client the other day and they’re responsible for writing in, in a team. And I said so do you provide the writers a brief? And they said, what’s that? So, I was like, oh, okay, well this is what a brief, so if you don’t know what a brief is, it’s your roadmap, right? This is what I’m going to write, why I’m going to write it. This is the topic; these are the areas I’m going to cover. So, it’s basically an outline, but it includes your SEO and includes you know, the keywords. And so I think this is one area where the AI content generation tool shine, because it’s, again, you can get automated briefs, which I think are less useful from AI, but the ones that we are you, the writer or the content designer is working with the tool and choosing it’ll maybe give you a lot of choices and then you start to choose, yeah, I want to, I want to write on this and this and this and this, and then you create this great brief. So that’s, that’s my 2 cents on it, John.


John (19:02): Yeah. I mean, I think some of those I tools that you make a good point there, which is that some of the tools that do exist for rapid briefing I think it gives you insights into what could be possible. You know, what, and it also gives you the opportunity to not miss anything, although I’ve seen many circumstances where topics and keywords are pulled up and it’s got absolutely nothing to do with the topic. It’s another nuance. And so that’s where the writer comes in or the strategist they say, oh, well, it’s got nothing to do with it. You must look through and then make sure that it’s appropriate. I think that’s what we always say. Right. Which is it, it’s not just about using the tool and then expecting, it’s going to come back with a brilliant result. The brilliant result comes from the you know, the person that’s using the AI content generation tool to make the best out of it.


Scott (19:56): That’s great. And, you know, one point I think John, that we’ve seen is that we’ve hear, we hear people say the writers don’t write to the brief and sometimes you know, sometimes when we’re having a problem with someone giving us some content back it’s can be because we didn’t create a good brief, right? Yeah. So, they’re not writing the brief, because the brief is too vague. It’s too, there’s too many things like there’s too many keywords on it. It’s like, how can I write a, how can I write an article with all like what, what do we really want in here? And what’s, what’s the goal in terms of SEO and in terms of the article topic itself. So that’s, I think that this, again, the AI at the briefing is really sweet.


John (20:50): What about writing, creating new content with AI?


Scott (20:54): So, I think the key there is that it has to be really easy to use. And I think the tools that we pretty much reviewed in the AI content generation scorecard and an analysis many of the ones that we included, I think we, at that time we’d like probably looked at over 50 did have that they were easy to use in terms of actually generating the content, but in terms of generating great content out of the box my opinion is we’re not there yet with that. And so, it’s, it’s a good first draft. But if you’re looking for some creativity and to, and to ensure your style guidelines for your company, that’s something that, where you really need the expertise of the writer themselves. And you know I’m not sure that we’ll ever get to the point where you, you put everything in, and you push the button and you’re going to get to your final draft.


John (22:03): Well, I, I think it’s really been a learning exercise for me over, you know, the last two years or so in understanding how to use these tools. And, and the one tip I give to people is don’t give up and also don’t expect that you’re going to get, you know, an entire article, but rather work section by section on a concept or an idea mm-hmm <affirmative>, but you can, if you, if you have a tool which you can change the inputs on, you actually may be able to get different results. I mean, I’ve, I actually have produced, you know, it’s kind of weird. I was running this test on writing an article and specifically for that article, I didn’t know all the answers per se, although it was a topic that I’m really very familiar with because it was related to, to marketing.


John (22:53): But by putting in different questions and descriptions, I came out with different answers, and I came out with different lens and answers, but each piece I didn’t necessarily use everything, but I certainly use part of it across that, that exercise. So, so again, it’s up to the rider to be the, the craftsperson, to know how to use these tools, just like, you know, if you are using word or, or Google you know, a Googled a document, there are, there are tools and tips and you know, there’s the Chrome in the tool that you can get the best out of it. So, it’s, it’s, it’s kind of like that where I think a as you start using these tools you bring your own expertise, and you then learn how to use it to the best effect


Scott (23:48):Mm-Hmm <affirmative> for sure. And I remember, remember even like at earlier in 21 we were testing some tools that you know, sometimes you just get gibberish or it, like, it would repeat the same paragraph over again. And I think that even some of the most more popular tools had some of those problems, but we are not seeing that hardly at all anymore, at least in the tools that are, you know, worthwhile, but that I think even in this, this short period of time, a lot of tools have come a long way.


John (24:23): I agree. I agree. I think we have seen a new development. So, what about another topic there, which is optimization? How do you think the tools are working on that?


Scott (24:33): Yeah, so I’m not as I’m not as versed in the optimization piece of that. I think you might be John in terms of, you know, taking something that already exists, and you know, fine tuning in with the tools. May you can share a little bit more on that.


John (25:01): Yeah, no, I’m, I’m working with clients at the moment. I’m working with one client at the moment that you know, with a technology company and we’re having right, you know, I’m putting together the research, putting together the briefs and then the writer goes out and does that work and I’ll read the article and I’ll come up with my own opinions, but I’ll also use some of the AI content tools to measure whether the, whether the particular article has sufficient content, whether it’s covering the topic sufficiently. So, within a minute or two, I can do a quick review of a piece. So, I can do a quick review of a piece of article. Right. And then give feedback to the to the, to the writer. I, you still must go through and say, oh, well, yeah, you know, this was good, this was bad.


You need more here, but that those automated tools are so helpful because then I can also do that on different revisions as well. And I think that’s helpful to the writer because they say, oh yeah. Now I know what’s, I’m missing. I mean, part of it is, you know, we talked about creating a creative brief and writers read that, but they don’t always get the nuance. They don’t always see what’s most important. I think that’s part of the issue and yeah, you’re right. It’s, it’s the marketer not doing a good job of explaining what that brief is all


Scott (26:27): Structuring it. Yeah. Sometimes that’s true. And sometimes those optimization tools are you know, they’re, they, they can be really very easy to understand, you know, they’ll, they’ll use color, like, you know, red is no good green, you’re already, you know, there and or your number of instances and mentioning certain keywords. So yeah, that, that’s great. How about in terms of expansion, John what do you, how do you feel about how AI tools are used for that? I


John (27:01): Think that’s huge. And I also think there are a number of companies out there that are just focusing on it. Expansion to me means things like taking an existing piece of content and then turning it into something else such as a social post. So, you are you’ve done the work, you know, you’ve done the research, you’ve done the briefing, the writers written it they’ve used an AI content generation tool or, or they’ve written it themselves. And you then take that piece of content, and you start splitting it into small posts for Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and everything else. So, to me that’s one of the biggest values I think, of these tools.


Scott (27:40): I would agree. And I remember we were speaking with a, a software AI software vendor. And they obviously had a lot of those tools and for the life in me, I couldn’t find them in the tool. <Laugh>, I’m like, where is that? What do you mean? Where are they? And they’re like, well, you go here, here. So why another important thing for your AI tools? I’m mostly spending, speaking to vendors, you know, the UIs are critical to user adoption. And so I think that, you know, making sure that you’ve really worked hard on that and I understand the whole concept of you know, your minimum viable product, your MVP, and coming out with that, but very quickly getting feedback from users so that you can improve the usability, I think will be very helpful to the industry and for overall adoption, these tools.


John (28:41): Oh, I totally agree on that Scott with user experience. I mean, if you, you know, you can, you can have the best results in terms of AI content generation. But if, if the tool isn’t designed in such a way that the writer doesn’t know how to put in, or the marketer or the PR person doesn’t know how to put in the inputs, then you’re not going to get a good result because it’s hard to use. So, yeah, totally agree. What about metrics? What are, what are your thoughts on metrics and, and how that can help?


Scott (29:11): I’m a huge metric person KPIs. As soon as I start working with clients for any kind of marketing projects, I’m always, where do we need to be? Where are we today? How do we get there and what is the expected result? And so I think that this is a really big area for improvement for AI companies and that if they can show that the content that they are helping people to create, have a return on investment and that they’re achieving their goals, whatever the goals are of the particular tools, you know, be it, you know higher clicks, higher, you know leading better ads for search engine marketing whatever they are, the more of that information that can be provided will also help the adoption of the tools. The anecdotes are great, but metrics are much greater <laugh>.


John (30:26): Yeah. And I, I think, I think the industry’s got a long way to go on that. I mean, I think some companies, especially the higher end ones are sort of focused on that and it kind of makes sense because of the way that marketers think and they’re looking for, for metrics. But I, I just think back to our report on the whole section on content gap where you know, companies are looking to improve the quality of the content, right? Yes. But if you can’t measure whether you will your content is meeting the grade or not, then it’s, it’s hard to know whether you’ve, you know, done as well as you, you can also, I think metrics, because I’ve worked so much as a you know, as a freelancer and also an agencies. I think metrics are a good way for clients and companies to understand what they need to do. And then also if they’re actually achieving it so that they then see the value of the exercise in, you know, good content strategy.


Scott (31:34): Hmm. Excellent, good. I agree. So, at this leads us to our last question, John, and it’s really been a lot of fun having you on our program today. <Laugh> I hope you feel the same.


John (31:50): Absolutely. <laugh>


Scott (31:54): So, what is one thing John, that you believe that most people think is true about AI content generation, but you think is not true?


John (32:08): Well, I I’ve seen this has been early, but also, I think it, there’s also been more articles in the industry about this, which is that AI content generation is going to get you kicked out of Google, Google doesn’t like AI content generated content. And they’re going to be able to tell that it’s generated by an AI content generation tool. I don’t think that’s actually true. I mean, I think that if you, you use the tool and I’ve certainly seen circumstances I’ve actually worked with you know, it was kind of interesting. I was working for some clients, and I was working in a, a, a writer marketplace and seeing some of the results. But the writer wasn’t telling me whether it was AI content generated and I was reading in it. I was thinking the structure is near, well, one, the writer should have gone through and edited it correctly.


John (33:02): Right. But I, I was thinking, oh, this sound, this looks as if it’s generated. And that was before you know, I really knew the tool, but thinking back at the tools, but thinking back, I, I really do think that they were using a content generation tools. So, I, I think that if the writer does their job and, you know, does the editing and is really looking at the result. I don’t think that Google is going to be able to tell because they’re making original content. You know, they’re not, they’re not duplicating content, they’re generating content based upon concepts and ideas, but it’s, it’s, it’s unique content. And so if the writer is the craftsperson and is using these tools, you’re going to get a better quality piece of content because you know, all the topics that are out there, you know, it’s doing the research and also it helps you to answer those questions in each part of the article, because you’re getting those results.


John (34:05): And then the writer can, I mean, to me, writings about editing. It’s about going back and right. And, and going through it. So, I think that idea that, you know, you, oh, you can’t do, you can’t use AI content generation because it’s going to affect S here. I don’t think Google can tell, you know, if a right you’ve got a good professional writer, who’s using these tools. It’s, it’s not, it’s not it’s not all AI content generation, it’s the expertise. You know, I, I just saw an article. I don’t know if I shared this one with you, but I just saw an article of a professional in the AI image generation industry who won a first prize in an artist competition. But and you say, oh, and, and people are complaining about the art artists were complaining about that, that, that entry.


John (34:58): But then you read what it took for this individual to produce that content where it took hundred different, different variations of the image and the direction of that person. So, I think of it in the same way. Yeah, no, I mean, yeah, you, you can tell it, it required some, some thought and some existing expertise in artists. And I see that the, I see that the same way with building a good article that is going to convert, you know, I think goes back to what I talked about. SEO is not about topics and keywords. It’s actually about conversion. So, it’s about what you write about. It’s about the style. It’s about having an, you know, a convincing message as well as those topics, you know, it’s about a convincing message around those topics. Yeah. So, I think that’s the one thing. What about you? What do you see?


Scott (35:55): Yeah, just to comment on what yours, like, so we’re, you know, we’re professionals we’ve been in the industry a long time. We know what quality is and what quality isn’t. So, I could see in someone making an argument that, okay, you’re, you’re just going to push a button and you know, we’ve seen this, you push a button and you obviously got content from somewhere else. Okay. The price of a ticket going to this place is this dollar amount or it’ll, or it obviously came from a document somewhere where you could probably identify. Right. Right. You, and so I, if someone’s really lazy, I suppose that their content could go on and, and Google could say, no, that’s already exists over there. So, I can see that. But for companies that are using this or individuals that are professionals, they’re writers, they you know, they have some determined, predetermined goals, you know, because you know, there’s a lot of junk on the internet. Right. And that you know, Google can’t police at all, all, I mean, it’s just so much so but I hundred percent agreed, you know that that Google’s not going to throw it out because you were assisted by AI content generator to create your original content. You want to comment back on that, John?


John (37:18): Yeah. No, I think I agree. I agree with you. Yeah. I think that makes I think that makes absolute sense. I think it’s, I, I think it’s about understanding what these tools are and what they’re not right. And what the capabilities are and right. And thinking about how you use them. And that gets back to what we talked about earlier, which is digital transformation. And it’s just understanding, you know, what to do. I mean, it’s about going into a situation where you don’t know all the answers and you don’t really know how to use these tools. Right. I mean, I’m sure that there are some things that riders have discovered about AI content generation that the developers don’t even know about yet. So of course, and that’s just the way it is, you know? Right. So, I, I think, I think that’s the way that you have to approach it. I think you have to think about, you know, what the opportunity is and, and also understand how, how it can help people in the same way that, you know, we went from the printing industry to when we had computers, you know, the word processor and how much that’s changed the world. I think that’s what you have to think about. Look back and then you can look forward.


Scott (38:28): So, for me, the one thing that people believe that I’ve heard over and over again, and it’s, it’s really funny because in terms of being able to rationalize the argument, you can’t believe two opposite things at the same time. One must be true. The other one must be false. Right. And so, they’ll like, this is going to replace writers. I’ve heard it over and over and over again. But then the same people are also saying that the tools are no good. So, if the tools are no good, how are they going to replace writers? So, you got two, you can’t have you. Can’t how, so, first of all there’s a lot of value in the tools today. All right. And so, you need to begin to learn how to deploy these because people are deploying them.


Scott (39:24): And if you want to be competitive with your content, you’re going to need to know how to use them. And secondly, we’ve talked a lot about how the rider works with the tools. So, I guess I gave two for the price of one. We’re not replacing riders we’re not replacing content designers. We’re not, we’re not replacing that element. And people just need to, you know, start using them and see for themselves, give them another chance, if you tried, like a year ago, you know, maybe it didn’t work for you, but just like kind of throwing a tool in and that’s part of, you know, what we talk to clients about, you can’t just say, oh, we’re going to try these tools and, you know, stick them in. You must take a formal approach and have goals on where areas you’re going to deploy, what tools and what you expect, just like you would any other new technology that you’re introducing into your organization?


John (40:30): Well, I, I think about it in the same way, Scott as I have with marketing technology over the last 20 years, you know, marketers, we didn’t have as many technology skills, you know, 20, 25 years ago. And that’s all changed because the customers are all online. And if you are not using some of those digital marketing tools, then you’re just not going to be successful. Although I, I do sometimes think that you know, direct mail is going to be more successful now than it was because there aren’t many people as using it. But, but, but then that speaks to the whole point about in marketing, which is, you know, you use the tools that are that are most effective, but marketers, over the last 20 years, they have gained an awful lot of skills. Right. And they can’t do their job today unless they you know, they understand, understand something about using a CRM, email marketing social media, all those different


Scott (41:30): Aspects. Sure.


John (41:30): Right. Right. So, they


Scott (41:32): All an all the analytics and yeah. You know, we’re, we’re at, we’re at 10,000 Marx software tools identified and counting. Okay. Yes. So, choosing the right ones is, is important, but yeah,


John (41:52):But I think it’s that same issue with writers, which is, I think you’re going to see that transition where, you know, you, you said you know, is you’ve made that point is going to take the people’s jobs, but actually the rider’s jobs, but actually in reality, I think what’s going to happen is the, the rider that know how to use these tools, they’re going to be even more valuable. It’s actually going to be job security just as it is for marketers who know how to use Salesforce or HubSpot or, or whatever the tool is, you know, the CRM tool or SAP or whatever is out there. You know, if they know how to, if they know how to use those tools and to get the best out of them, then you know, they’ve got job security. So, I think it’s going to be for riders as well, which is there they’re going to help improve the quality of content and you know, it’s just going to get better for them.


Scott (42:47):Well, great. Well, this has been fun.


John (42:50):Yes. Yes. Thanks Scott. I think it’s been, I’m glad that we did it. And you know, I really appreciate you taking the time and I want to thank our audience for supporting us and we’ll see you next time.


Scott (43:01): Take care.